tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post4949361432083199097..comments2024-03-28T08:55:53.818-04:00Comments on Perdido Street School: What Comes After?reality-based educatorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01712885202661371924noreply@blogger.comBlogger90125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-88781207255854718252014-05-19T16:51:17.659-04:002014-05-19T16:51:17.659-04:00I understand you're angry.
I understand you&...I understand you're angry. <br /><br />I understand you're fearful. <br /><br />I am empathetic with your plight and I know that all teachers may soon face the same. <br /><br />I don't think turning your anger on me for suggesting teachers need to find ways to better frame labor protections issues to the public is going to help that plight much, however, nor do I think the anger I see displayed in this thread is going to win over anybody in the general public to what many people in this thread seem to want - respect and job security. <br /><br />But now, after 90+ comments, I'm weary of the back and forth on this. because we're getting nowhere.<br /><br />What I was trying to do was get people to see that the current trajectory of the contract argument wasn't going to win over many people in the general public and that matters for both contract negotiations and other education issues down the road.<br /><br />Clearly I convinced few - and perhaps nobody - with this post.<br /><br />But I stand by what I wrote in this post and the ancillary Eva/De Blasio piece I posted after.<br /><br />And with that, I am truly done with this thread - good luck to you, Newark Teacher.reality-based educatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01712885202661371924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-75866275200840431652014-05-19T14:25:01.859-04:002014-05-19T14:25:01.859-04:00Parents are spearheading the Common Core and Endle...Parents are spearheading the Common Core and Endless Testing campaigns. Duncan tried to come out against suburban moms, but that did not go over so well. Parents are not vilified by the press. What the education reform movement is doing to us is ugly and we are angry. I do not know how to frame issues. I am on the verge of losing my job and my career. I am looking into life after teaching.<br /><br />A Newark TeachetAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-21670575216669190802014-05-19T12:26:25.420-04:002014-05-19T12:26:25.420-04:00This proposed contract is an insult, and it is a c...This proposed contract is an insult, and it is a continuation of the assault on teaching as a profession. The right to due process should be protected for all, it is questionable why the UFT leadership can so easily allow this long standing right to be endangered and tout this contract as a big victory for educators. The rank and file should not only reject this contract in solidarity but seriously consider taking action in the form of a vote of no confidence for the entire UFT leadership, as well as explore the possibility of an alternative collective bargaining unit for UFT represented DOE educators/staff personnel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-16422498810061457402014-05-19T12:26:05.661-04:002014-05-19T12:26:05.661-04:00I never said I had the frame for the issue.
Just...I never said I had the frame for the issue. <br /><br />Just that what we've been doing so far on much of the labor stuff around teachers hasn't been working so well while what we've been doing around CCSS/Endless Testing/APPR has begun to work.<br /><br />But clearly I have not convinced anybody that this is much of an issue and so, after 86 comments, I will end by saying that I've stated my piece, other people have stated theirs, I stand by what I said, I respect what other people have said and that's about it.reality-based educatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01712885202661371924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-89882774537579532982014-05-19T10:38:38.294-04:002014-05-19T10:38:38.294-04:00OK RBE
Go ahead and frame the issue.
A Newark Te...OK RBE<br /><br />Go ahead and frame the issue.<br /><br />A Newark TeacherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-73975459235778081842014-05-19T09:32:17.965-04:002014-05-19T09:32:17.965-04:00You're right that it's near impossible to ...You're right that it's near impossible to work the PR when the leadership chooses not to. Of course, CTU had that problem too, before they took power and built the outreach to the community, so perhaps the best way to influence the PR is to take over the union. I dunno, maybe this contract can be the last straw for that.reality-based educatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01712885202661371924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-6568764641781726402014-05-19T09:27:15.385-04:002014-05-19T09:27:15.385-04:00Not arguing any of that. Just arguing that we can ...Not arguing any of that. Just arguing that we can influence how it plays to the public at large. The fight over APPR is an example - that used to be framed by the media as a "teachers don't want to be held accountable." But once parents joined the protests because they're children were on the other end of the testing that was being used for APPR teacher evaluations, that changed how the media framed the issue.reality-based educatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01712885202661371924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-11265699013992979022014-05-19T09:25:00.885-04:002014-05-19T09:25:00.885-04:00Swayed by the $1000 dollar bonus?
Don't wotty...Swayed by the $1000 dollar bonus?<br /><br />Don't wotty - not being swayed by that,reality-based educatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01712885202661371924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-51335658478619657972014-05-19T08:51:31.046-04:002014-05-19T08:51:31.046-04:00Each time a teachers union capitulates to demands ...Each time a teachers union capitulates to demands for ed deform, it opens the door wider for an onslaught. Newark is on track to be one third charter in 2015. Every time a school closes, the ATR ranks swell. Those quasi charter schools in New York will have have an extended day with minimal pay for all those extra hours. The Post and the News will keep up their teacher bashing schedule regardless of the outcome of the contract vote. We are only as strong as our weakest link. I am living the Ed Deform Nightmare.<br /><br />A Newark TeacherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-50549766825801130472014-05-19T08:40:16.551-04:002014-05-19T08:40:16.551-04:00RBE - I think you are on the wrong track. Who is i...RBE - I think you are on the wrong track. Who is in a position to mount a PR campaign outside the UFT? Winning over the public and competing with Eva is not feasible. RIght now the forces of real reform are growing and working on things together (like the rally on Sat) but that movement has a long way to go. MORE is just a fragment in that movement, not the mover.<br />Our problem is the people leading the one organization that has the money and personnel to engage in that PR but chooses not to - the UFT. So how can any of us do that when the UFT lines up on the other side so often?<br />Now given that MORE - a democratic and open organization that allows anyone to attend meetings and speak up - is working on strategies for dealing with consequences of a NO Vote. You are certainly welcome to take part as is anyone reading this blog. People are discussing this even if the chances of a NO vote are not great? There's also a strategy being discussed on consequences of a YES vote. <br />The reality is that there is little way to influence the public. This is not like Chicago where a progressive force runs the union. <br />MORE began talking strategy about this contract a year ago - and contrary to Unity attacks - addressed how to support a contract that was not terrible even if not perfect. That attitude was in operation through the first 48 hours after we heard - and people were cautioned to not just jump on a NO bandwagon but see how this was being received by people they worked with. MORE also had a strategy to deal with a bad contract. I don't think anyone imagined they would come back with a contract like this. The storm that came from so many non-MORE areas of the union surprised me. I began getting emails from people I hadn't heard from in years.<br />I don't think you are defeatist but a realist- except when you seem to say the NO would win. I was in the midst of the 2005 contract battle and that was a bigger one than this one and we got 40% of the working teacher vote. The major difference this time is social media - which cannot make up the difference. <br />The attempt to pin every neg comment or angry person at the DA on MORE is the same crap I heard about the opposition for 45 years. Before I turned rogue I spent 5 years talking to Randi and Unity people - who told me how much they loved Ed Notes - because it didn't go after them and wasn't a threat. It was only when with the rise of ed deform and Unity's support of it that it became clear they were the problem, not the solution.ed notes onlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018047869059226777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-25426610541246959712014-05-19T07:59:10.503-04:002014-05-19T07:59:10.503-04:00James,
I respect your knowledge, expertise &...James, <br /><br />I respect your knowledge, expertise & experience around labor issues and contractual issues. I do not come from that background or viewpoint, but rather come from the point of view of an armchair political consultant looking at the political landscape.<br /><br />I will cede to you the argument over the cops and firemen - you make great points about de Basio's need for labor support and how that might make him more amenable to coming in with a marginally better pattern quickly.<br /><br />The part of my argument you didn't address though was the politics around this. <br /><br />I do not see much in the way of strategy for winning a p.r. battle if the contract is voted down. Teachers are going to get killed in the media for it. Cops and firefighters can sometimes be vilified during contractual battles, but nowhere near as badly as teachers. <br /><br />While I think the opposition is doing a great job of giving reasons for why the contract should be voted down (and they are GOOD and VALID ones), I do not see any effort to deal with the p.r. bloodbath that is going to come afterwards. <br /><br />And so, even if you win a marginally better contract (because, as you say, it's in de Blasio's political interest to come back with one), you lose the p.r. war in the public sphere as the Post and the News and Marcia Kramer hammer teachers day after day as greedy. <br /><br />Please see my second post that came after this one, about the Eva/de Blasio charter war, for why p.r. matters greatly (link below.)<br /> <br />You can be on the right side of the argument, have the moral high ground, and still get killed in the media and eventually public opinion as it gets swayed by media coverage if you're not careful in how you go about these battles.<br /><br />That doesn't mean people should vote for the contract or take a bad contract - I state that clearly in the post.<br /><br />It does mean that we need to start thinking about mounting a more sophisticated p.r. war than we have so far or otherwise we'll end up like de Blasio after the Eva charter war, with two thirds of the city on the other side (that's where the poll numbers on the charter issue ended up after the hammer job Eva and her friends did on him.)<br /><br />And this point is true not only of the contract battle but the overall fight against corporate reform. Again, I think the Eva/de Blasio charter war stands as the emblem for what happens when p.r. is either ignored or given short shrift in a fight.<br /><br />http://perdidostreetschool.blogspot.com/2014/05/how-do-we-counter-sophisticated-pr.htmlreality-based educatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01712885202661371924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-73050690591794906562014-05-19T05:11:49.812-04:002014-05-19T05:11:49.812-04:00As always, James Eterno brings reason and clarity ...As always, James Eterno brings reason and clarity to the table.<br />The rank and file is royally screwed with this contract. DeBlasio is no friend of ours to have pushed for this deal. Farina has shown her true colors, and those of the current mayoral adminstration with the imminent closing of Jamaica High School.<br />Remember the meme, Watch what I do, not what I say. It applies here. <br />Don't be swayed by the $1000. bonus. That's what I'm hearing out there. Vote NO, as if your life depended on it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-72917756269599203102014-05-18T23:18:06.801-04:002014-05-18T23:18:06.801-04:00Reality- I normally look to you for sound politica...Reality- I normally look to you for sound political reasoning but I think you are missing something here. We will not lose de Blasio as a friend if we vote this substandard contract down. Look to history as the guide. David Dinkins managed to tick off the uniform unions and the UFT by 93 and that is why he lost. De Blasio is finished with the cops and firefighters (see Ed Notes for details) unless he radically changes policy. If he loses us, he starts to run into significant labor trouble. 1199 is great to have but he needs us to protect him if the popular cops and firefighters are elsewhere. If this contract is voted down (yes I know that is a real longshot), I predict it would get fixed rather quickly and it would be a marginally better deal. Now if only I could see this prediction come true. We have the power; let's use it. If the contract passes as it currently exists, it is a blueprint for more ed deform.James Eternohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578647381229034792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-17280742933078187752014-05-18T20:10:29.254-04:002014-05-18T20:10:29.254-04:00Mary, there is no time for subtle changes. Our ch...Mary, there is no time for subtle changes. Our changes MUST BE RADICAL. It should be ALL OR NOTHING. Like in Chicago. We MUST STAY TRUE TO THAT! What we can't allow is for PERSONAL AGENDAS TO TAKE OVER!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-31214640861421404652014-05-18T13:30:49.234-04:002014-05-18T13:30:49.234-04:00I don't agree with this post but do agree with...I don't agree with this post but do agree with the political analysis. There is an outside chance this could go down.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-59698822613690804432014-05-18T13:13:25.877-04:002014-05-18T13:13:25.877-04:00I dunno - I think Facebook and Twitter adds an unk...I dunno - I think Facebook and Twitter adds an unknown to the vote that is hard to predict.reality-based educatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01712885202661371924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-34115494828806604992014-05-18T12:25:05.562-04:002014-05-18T12:25:05.562-04:00I was too wordy (as usual) and had to do some dele...I was too wordy (as usual) and had to do some deleting. Left out a few important things... Third paragraph should have read, "Once I told him that I really thought HE needed to stop worrying..."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-72988886268580681582014-05-18T12:20:27.138-04:002014-05-18T12:20:27.138-04:00Although I've seen how opposition voices get &...Although I've seen how opposition voices get "shut down" at DAs, I;ve also noticed that whether they realize it or not, many of those who are speaking out bring some level of hostility with them. Maybe they don't realize it because they're angry and because they think they're justified in their anger. People in the audience see it, which may be why they're so quick to go along with the "shut down". I'm not going to say it's the right thing to do and in the end it just creates more animosity, but maybe the "dissenters" need a different approach.<br /><br />I wonder, have any of these people tried to talk to Mulgrew AFTER the DA? I do it all the time and he always listens to what I have to say. I'm usually worked up about something or other but I always TRY not to be disrespectful and I have no agenda other than trying to improve things for staff and students. <br /><br />Once I told him that I really needed to stop worrying so much what The Post or The Daily News says because teachers were more worried about their livelihoods under this new APPR than they cared about what the press said. Now it appears the evaluation has been tweaked a bit to allow for different MOSLs and to allow a principal to override some score. <br /><br />Another time I asked him what was being done to change the disincentive for principals to hire senior ATR teachers. He told me it wasn't a contractual issue but a DOE policy and they were working on it. Apparently that is now being changed. <br /><br />Another time after we were told that we should file grievances if our administration wasn't keeping up with the evaluations I told him I resented that we, as teachers and chapter leaders, had to "police" the principals and possibly face repercussions for that. At the time he got a bit frustrated with me and said "You can't have it both ways." Then he said "Sometimes as Chapter Leader you have to make the tough decisions." I still disagree with that. But now we're down to 8 rather than 22 components... I'd be happier if there were NONE, but I guess it's at least showing compromise. <br /><br />Up in Albany, I went up to him after the speeches and told him I was furious that they had State Senator Flanagan up there and in case he wasn't aware, I explained in no uncertain terms how Flanagan was NOT our friend and that even though he's a Long Island Senator that he had been the sponsor of legislation to remove seniority protections ONLY for NYC teachers. Again, he listened, tried to calm me down by saying that we had to try to bring these people over to our side and ended with "They haven't done anything bad to us lately, have they?" <br /><br />Once after I previously had called out for smaller class sizes he pointed at me and said "You want lower class size.. we can do that." I'm still waiting on that one.<br /><br />I could go on, but I think you get the point. I think it's good to challenge our leadership. I think it's good to let them know if the things they are agreeing to might be hurting the rank and file or the students. But I think one of the only reasons I'm able to have these conversations with him is because I honestly like and respect him. I want him to do the right thing and succeed because that would make a stronger union for all of us. I almost expect him to run the other way when he sees me coming, but instead he extends his hand and says "Always nice to see you."<br /><br />Maybe it's time for some people to take a step back from this "War on Unity" and think more about how are we going to improve not only our schools but our Union, not how are we going to destroy it. I think we need to support our new Mayor and Chancellor because for the first time in a long time, they bring hope of better days ahead for our public schools.<br /><br />MaryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-35289593384033089122014-05-18T10:36:23.342-04:002014-05-18T10:36:23.342-04:00Everyone attacking RBE for stating common sense - ...Everyone attacking RBE for stating common sense - if you vote no, you better have a plan for the future.You better be willing to take the heat and possibly strike. All the MORE people constantly rip Mulgrew and Unity for speaking with one voice in public, RBE gives his opinion and gets flamed for it because it is not part of the MORE party line. Such hypocrisy. These are your white knights leading you to victory? It's easy to tear people down, the hard part is coming up with a better option instead of whining and saying NO to everything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-29466787550856140902014-05-18T09:48:20.337-04:002014-05-18T09:48:20.337-04:00I certainly have been on the other end of the &quo...I certainly have been on the other end of the "What? You're not saying what we're saying? We will attack you now!" the last 24 hours. <br /><br />I can never support the current leadership because of the way they run the union and treat members - they really have scorn and disdain for us and see the union as nothing more than a tool for their own agenda.<br /><br />I also cannot support them because I think their strategies to protect teachers are wanting, their political strategies short-sighted.<br /><br />I want an opposition leadership that changes both of these things - sees the members not as a pain to deal with but real partners in governing the union and thinks through political strategy beyond the short-sighted expediency we see out of Mulgrew/Weingarten.reality-based educatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01712885202661371924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-36779945597090292442014-05-18T09:41:55.789-04:002014-05-18T09:41:55.789-04:00I'm not arguing the contract is good. I'm ...I'm not arguing the contract is good. I'm not advocating people vote yes. I am saying people need to get ready for the p.r. war if and when the contract agreement is voted down so they can get what they want in the second agreement AND limit the political damage to teachers.reality-based educatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01712885202661371924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-63195055672709883512014-05-18T09:40:26.697-04:002014-05-18T09:40:26.697-04:00Thanks for your kind words, Mary.
I think you ar...Thanks for your kind words, Mary. <br /><br />I think you are right that the atmosphere has been so poisoned over the past few years that there is little trust among many in the rank and file for the union leadership and that lack of trust is getting transferred to de Blasio. <br /><br />I am not advocating people vote "yes" on the contract - I am advocating that people begin thinking about ways to win the p.r. war and deal with the political consequences if the contract is voted down.<br /><br />Often people get so focused on the first part of a battle - voting the contract down - that they forget there is more to winning the whole battle.<br /><br />Many people understandably want the ATR provision out of the contract. <br /><br />And I think they're right to want the provision out.<br /><br />What I am not hearing is how they plan to get that out of a second agreement.<br /><br />It's easy to hammer me for pointing out that there is no plan to get the changes they want in a second agreement other than wishful thinking.<br /><br />I suspect part of the anger getting aimed my way is really fear that they know I'm right that there's no plan for the "after".<br /><br />And that is scaring people.<br /><br />Chaz does a pretty good job of trying to explain why treating ATR's with dignity and respect is in the interest of the system and the students.<br /><br />Alas, our union does no such thing.<br /><br />Thus I think even in a second contract agreement, there will be no changes to the ATR provision UNLESS people advocate strongly, forcefully, publicly and effectively for them.reality-based educatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01712885202661371924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-40013353517010127222014-05-18T09:31:48.021-04:002014-05-18T09:31:48.021-04:00We know that the Unity/NA bloc will all vote yes a...We know that the Unity/NA bloc will all vote yes and will be doing their GOTV for "yes."<br /><br />But there is an awful lot of disgruntlement and anger on the Internet about the contract that makes me think the "no" vote will be big.<br /><br />In addition, I have heard personally from many people who say they are voting "no," including at my school. Whether they really do vote "no" is another matter, but that's what I have heard.<br /><br />With the preponderance of social media these days, I would think the "no" vote will be higher than '05, when we really just had the blogs to fight with.<br /><br />Is it enough for the "no's" to win?<br /><br />I don't know.<br /><br />Unlike a political campaign where you have polls to use to guide you, we have nothing to guide us here except the '95 vote and the '05 vote.<br /><br />I am leaning toward this is going to be more like the '05 vote than the '95 vote - there will be a significant "no" vote but not enough to kill the agreement.<br /><br />But social media adds an unknown that could surprise and there is an outside chance this could go down.reality-based educatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01712885202661371924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-84839491378250820592014-05-18T09:22:28.484-04:002014-05-18T09:22:28.484-04:00I said none of the things you say I said. In fact,...I said none of the things you say I said. In fact, I wrote "<br /><br />While I am in no way suggesting we should take a bad contract so we can prop de Blasio up politically or keep him happy with us, I am saying that we had better think about the long-term political consequences if we vote the contract agreement down and have a plan to deal with them afterwards."<br /><br />Which simply means, if and when the contract is voted down, have plans to A) get what we want in the second contract agreement - including changes to the ATR agreement and B) deal with the p.r. fallout.<br /><br />If you want to continue saying I have said something I haven't said, then our conversation is done here.reality-based educatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01712885202661371924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1628172601886929098.post-82774553592104521872014-05-18T06:34:24.167-04:002014-05-18T06:34:24.167-04:00Can't say I agree with you often, but your pos...Can't say I agree with you often, but your post is very well thought out! Thank you! I want more money just like everyone, but I'm ok with this contract. We need to fight UNITY with things that really matter to the whole membership and have a responsible plan on how to get it. I've been telling people this but they are too entrenched in their own agenda and they silence you when you are not in agreement. No point in changing leadership if the new leadership is out to help themselves too! Our change must be a change of the heart, and this is becoming disheartening. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com